Is a documentary photography degree worth having?
Written by duckrabbitOK, duckrabbit sparked a bit of debate by pointing our that to take the documentary photojournalism degree at Newport is going to set you back £27000 in fees. That’s a lot of money by any standard, but it’s in line with what most other University’s charge for oversea students.
IS IT WORTH IT?
I wonder how up to date the course actually is?
Documentary Photography at Newport is built upon the traditions of photojournalism and editorial photography, highly valued in global media and publishing sectors.
I know what I think, and it will probably be a surprise to some of you (more later). If you have a photojournalism degree and want to comment we’ll put your thoughts up here. I’ll also drop the peeps at Newport a line and see what they have to say.
Author — duckrabbit
duckrabbit is a production company formed by radio producer/journalist Benjamin Chesterton and photographer David White. We specialize in digital storytelling.
Discussion (60 Comments)
Ok…for the sake of clarity…£27000 is for an overseas student…I know it says that in the post, but just sayin’.
And, quite frankly, for me the answer is no, not if you’re hoping it will lead to a job/living as a documentary photographer. No-one has ever asked me about my qualifications, they just want to see pictures.
I worked out the cost of a foundation degree, just 2/3 of a BA in photography and it came to £18k and most reader thought I’d missed much, and so I had, so it’s not overseas students. Depends on your Uni of course, but most just do not have the equipment or resources you need to actually do the work they set.
http://www.thephotographypages.co.uk/2008/03/cost-of-an-undergraduate-photography-degree-part-2/
Stephen Sidlo wrote (in July 2008)
http://www.thephotographypages.co.uk/2008/07/photography-degrees-and-filthy-lucre-a-reader-writes/
Thinking through my options and whether (or not) to complete, do a BA/MA and I have come to the conclusion that I would have been far better in terms of learning and the potential for income generation to spend those two years practicing in the field, actually doing real work. I’d like to engage in the process of doing a BA but I’m pretty sure that if I do, it won’t get me any further into a career in the industry, and I’d have to spend another £5-10k or so.
I think we’re going to disagree on this one … but I’ll wait to hear what other people think before lobbing in …
Given that the limited skill set required to be a photographer could be comfortably taught in a week, of course it isn’t worth it to the prospective student. However, that overlooks the primary purpose of a course like this: to provide a living via teaching for older photographers unable to pay their bills through photography itself.
Andrew, do you really think the right skills to become a photo-journalist can be taught in a week? And there is more to being a photo-journalist than taking photos. I still wouldn’t do the degree though as I do believe that the skill required can only be gained through experience.
“Worth having..” is pretty subjective. Do you want to clarify what you mean?
Good point Brenda … I guess that’s down to the individual and their perceptions on the value of things.
Ah, my earlier comment may have hit your spamcatcher, probably because it has two links in it.
I guess it all depends what you’re looking for.
Like David says, pieces of paper mean nothing when it comes to selling your pictures or ideas. That’s not what it’s about for me. For me, the course I’m doing at LCC is about creating some space where I can focus on photography and make mistakes in a way that I can’t afford to in my working life. In a very directed way. And while getting time and access to – and honest feedback from – some very good teachers and visiting lecturers. I couldn’t care less about the qualification at the end of it.
I’m only a couple of weeks in so far but I have no doubts or regrets. The way we’re approaching what we do is a really useful exercise – particularly now that there are few newspaper jobs at which to cut one’s teeth. I mean the Manchester Evening News, where I used to work as a reporter, recently got rid of its last staff photographer – he was the only one kept on a few years ago when they culled the whole desk.
I think most people on my course have their eyes open and understand the dire situation the industry is in. Most people are mature students in their 30s, just wanting to develop their photography, often for themselves. I don’t think anyone’s under any allusions that they are likely to be the next Martin Parr or James Nachtwey.
Seven years ago I also did a post-grad training course for newspaper reporting, full time and a year long. The difference for that was that you really have to have an NCTJ to get a job at all. We learned the essentials – shorthand, law etc and I was lucky enough to get sponsored through it.
But what shocked me was that when we got there – and this is supposedly one of the top journalism courses in the country – at least 5 of the 25 or so on the course had spent three years on the same university’s undergraduate newspaper journalism degree. Paying fees and taking out big student loans. That cannot be worth it – spending that time and money but still being unqualified for the workplace (no shorthand etc).
Photography’s very different, obviously, but three years is a long time. I know of people who end up doing an MA course in photojournalism after an undergraduate degree in the same thing. Which makes me wonder about the point.
…the point might be that the extra year spent gaining the MA makes it easier to then get a teaching job yourself…
maybe. But I don’t think that’s why they’re doing it
I know a number of photographers and picture editors who are currently engaged in gaining MAs solely with the intention of going into teaching themselves, and desperately hoping the pyramid won’t collapse before they reach retirement age.
I guess the same question (is it worth having) could be asked of a lot of degrees. English…American Studies…Social Anthropology….the list is endless. they don’t lead to a job unless you want to teach…
people just do it for the experience and the love of learning
Yes, agreed but those aren’t vocational degrees. There are professions where you need a degree to practice, and those where you don’t. Clearly being a photographer doesn’t require a degree unlike medicine or teaching.
The question is, do you need to spend £27k or thereabouts to learn to be a photographer? Or does spending £27k make you a better one?
(my comment directly under David’s is stuck, thank all the gods of Askimet 😉
final point on the photography/journalism course thing.
one of the things I do think they usually get people thinking about is ethics and responsibility
I agree Ciara … if a degree can teach storytelling and a good understanding of ethics then its has achieved something really well.
I think also it depends on the individual … but to spend three years developing your creative talents is a fantastic opportunity. I pissed my degree away … still got a good one, but I think the value of it, or otherwise was down to what I put in. Some of the teaching was terrific, some by pissheads. It did seem though that the University out a low value on the quality of teaching, which is a shame. At BCU I work with a guy called Sam Coley who is an inspirational teacher. Spending time in his classes is worth every penny, but there are other teachers in every institution who are beaten down by the system and don’t have the same level of care for their students.
Those of us lucky enough to have staff jobs only got their positions thanks to that piece of paper. You won’t even get to interview stage with my employer without a degree. It really does depend on what you spend that 27 grand on. If you’re motivation is to be your own boss and run a local business then no, it probably is not worth the money.(Just buy a Bowens kit and a DSLR and work your way up) If like me and ten years ago you were selling insurance and wondering what happened to that 18 year old who used to take pictures every waking minute then doing a degree (especially at Newport)and using the creative space to grow into a competent professional will change your life.
Well, put like that, £27k to change your life sounds like a bargain.
It does? It’s £27k if you have the money, which arguably excludes a lot of the people well suited to do the kinds of work Duckrabbit likes: people living in and from poor communities, voiceless.
But it’s also three years during which time it’s pretty much impossible to work in a job, unless it’s a McJob shiftwork or whatever to pay those fees. So you could say the true cost is £27k + 3 years at (say) average earnings.
Indeed Brenda..
Hey,
i’m on my third and final year on the documentary photography course in newport and now at the threshold of finding a job in the industry. at this point if you asked me wether i would have taken the course again for the money its cost me, the answer would be yes. i learnt more in the first year here then after three years of previous photography. your money gets you the attention and nurturing your photography needs in the early stages. nowhere in the industry (as freelance) can you make the mistakes you need to grow in skill without it costing you the same. the difference is you make and correct these mistakes under the guidance of excellent photographers (they are in newport) in projects that you have chosen and feel passionate about. plus you get the once a week visiting lectures and a Q&A by some amazing professional photographers who explain their work and their experience in the industry. By the end of the three years you have a grounding of what type of photography it is that interests you. not an interest that is shaped by what job you can get in the industry. The course at newport has also given me the self confidence to initiate and pursue projects that i would never in wildest dreams would have thought of doing before uni. there is also something amazing about having a friendship group of 20 – 30 photographers. You push each other to go further, better, new.
Ciara is def right about the theory side as well, you learn pretty fast about ethics, responsibilities and a whole host of other issues you had no idea existed when you strat research a 10000 word dissertation! the end effect is the broadening of your mind about the entire genre of photography
With the rise in digital technology i can say that it has been slightly slower than i thought to pick up, but the course (due to educational rules) is only allowed to be reevaluated majorly in its structure every four yrs. dont get me wrong they do encourage the switch, its not like you get thrown into the cage in the corner of the room if you dont use film, though its hard not to with such good B&W and Colour darkrooms. what we have instead are photoshop and web design tutorials, 24/7 access to a photography IT suite kitted out with double screen, colour correction macs, M/F, 35mm scanners printers and and access to a Epsilon LED printer. At the end it gives you a choice to choose what it is that turns you on film or digital, and schools you in both. i cant wait to get on with the portfolio ive built here to find somthing i feel passionate about doing. investing your money in a uni course is about getting as much as you put in….it is so easy to fall away hand in the basics needed to get a pass and come away with memories of great parties. the links to gallery work and work experience with photographers is all here and the cash is worth it, as long as you put the effort in to do more than what is asked of you………
an i aint kiddin bout uni parties, in no other time am i gonna be able to fit 60 ppl in my house an rave it up on a wed! =P
Rajan
Thanks for this … the line about:
‘but the course (due to educational rules) is only allowed to be reevaluated majorly in its structure every four yrs. ‘
Is complete bollocks. Is that what you’ve been told?
‘but the course (due to educational rules) is only allowed to be reevaluated majorly in its structure every four yrs. ‘
Yeah, no that’s incorrect. Might be an internal thing.
My course removed (and destroyed) their colour darkroom with no consultation with either the students (in mid-term), thought internally within a moderation team about how to teach colour awareness, or with their awarding body. Academic rigour of any kind: course and module design, vocational relevance, assessment methods were appalling.
Rajan I am so glad you’re having a good experience: it is really good to hear.
Is it worth it? That depends entirely on what you hope to get out of it. I couldn’t get my photography career kickstarted until I saved some cash, quit my job and enrolled on a course. I went in there with a very clear idea of what I wanted to do – improve my technical skill with software, mess around with cameras I couldn’t afford to buy, listen to the lessons of working photographers and engage with my peers. In short, I wanted to take photography from being at the periphery of my life to being a central component. I came to the conclusion that a course would do that. the one I eventually took – for a variety of reasons that included the fact that my girlfriend’s job was transferred to the U.S., the course was only one year long and I would have to leave the U.K. and all the wonderful distractions of my life there in order to do it – was the International Center of Photography’s one year certificate program in photojournalism. Though it has it’s flaws I learned a lot in a short space of time. I could have done this in other ways – I know that some people have taken the money you would spend on course fees and go out and just dive straight in to the job – with varying degrees of success of course! Some people might work for years in their spare time and try and eventually make it their career by degrees (which was what I was doing before I took the course). The truth is that courses are not right for everybody. I actually teach with the ICP now and I’m sure that some people get more out of it than others, as was the case when I studied. I tell students in my class that if they just sit back and don’t engage with the course, expecting the piece of paper to be their ticket to employment then they really are wasting their time and money. For me, I knew exactly what I wanted to get out of the course and worked damn hard to make sure I got my money’s worth. Whether I did or not, or whether I would have been better off engaging with photography full time in another way is perhaps open to debate, but I think central to the idea of worth is your own personal goals, work and expectations. I’m doing ok so far…
I certainly think some people waste their money, but then it’s not only on course fees that that is possible right?
Totally agree with you Tom. The value of a course is dependent both on the student and the institution …
Doing the Photography BA gives a student the focus but also teaching photography as a discipline. Far better than buying Michael Langford’s ‘Basic Photography’ and a cheap SLR.
I did the BA in Swansea, graduated in 2009 but having deferred back in 2005 thereby financed by the government on the old rules (loan and tuition fees paid for by the taxpayer) and I’m now doing the MA in Westminster (only having saved said loans to pay for it). The educational environment from the BA is something I’ve benefitted greatly from, not so much from the students since most just wasted their time, but the lecturers picking on my mistakes and pushing me. Without it who would have been there to sharpen my focus or encourage me to want to say something about the world? I had the opportunity to work on a project for a year, refining it over and over again, making the million of mistakes. No business would allow that and self guided study wouldn’t have probably pushed me to make more mistakes. University did.
The MA at Westminster is teaching me more about the journalism side which the BA didn’t really offer. Writing isn’t the focus in Swansea if isn’t something you’re interested in doing, the structure is very open ended and only at the end of the course did I realise I wanted to write more. The lecturers only encourage your primary interest (what you want to photograph). At the same time I’m doing the MA for the teaching ability, aside from furthering my interest in the subject.
I think already the money which IS wasted is the portfolio (sorry about this). My website has granted me more attention and discussion. Maybe I’ve been unlucky but that’s my experience so far and I’ve resorted to taking it apart and presenting it in exhibitions.
I think the bigger question is do we need a limit on Photojournalism Degrees? This country alone produces enough photographers to service the whole of Europe. The worry here is that students are encouraged to do something they want to do as opposed to finding a degree the market is hiring for.
Hey,
After I came out (just to echo the link Brenda put up) I wrote this very angry post when I came out of Swansea.
http://www.thephotographypages.co.uk/2008/07/photography-degrees-and-filthy-lucre-a-reader-writes/
I know JonathanJK was in the year below and the mistakes and teaching methods refine which each year group. Yet is this particularly about Newport or about all? I’ve heard a lot of good things come from Newport – and that good togs come from there – yet not so at others.
I was generally upset that the equipment, portfolio and cd sleeves I was buying with my rent money were of lesser value due to how little the loan was. In theory my creativity was hampered somewhat. The emphasis was on photography and not journalism at Swansea – and I didnt get any business skills.
Do I feel wiser?
I suppose it only clarified that I want to be a Photojournalist rather than give me the tools to compete. All I hear is “cutting staff” “no money for photographers” “photographers turning to multimedia and third sector”. I came out of my particular school with a better understanding of ethics and theory…rather than the tools of communication, competitiveness and marketing.
Does the ethics and theory help me? Yes of course, it gives me a vocab to debate about the issues of PJ – yet it leaves me out of pocket to contribute with a degree that NGO’s, CEO’s and various other acronyms don’t look at.
What am I doing now after a year and half after graduating?
I’m sat in my bedroom, parents downstairs – i’ve sold everything I own apart from the bed, website about to close, ran out of business cards i’ve had since the uni loan. I’ve left my bar job to find a way to start a non paid internship in London at The Frontline Club I was offered – plus work behind the bar there. I got that by sleeping and showering in the train station for 2 nights and pestering them with random appearances and begging – not my degree.
Stephen,
thanks for sharing this.
just read the post you linked to. I am outraged for you! no wonder you are seriously pissed off. It’s hard to weigh up the value of a university education. I’m from one of the first years where we had fees + loans (the old system) and while they weren’t (quite) as steep as what new graduates are facing, it is still going to take me a long time to pay things off. But more fool me for choosing a career where my starting salary was £12k a year (after five years of university) and which is now in its death throes. The time when I’ll be able to clear my debt and start a pension looks a long way off and I just turned 30! Yet if I had my time again would I take the same path? Yes, absolutely. Value can’t be measured monetarily. I think you/we have the misfortune to be entering a precarious profession at a shitty time, compounded by the worst recession the country’s seen for years. You’ve got to either stick with it or change direction completely. Don’t allow yourself to grow bitter
I’m sorry Stephen but this going to sound harsh and unsympathetic, but I came out fine from doing the same BA, why didn’t you? You also were on the old student loan system like myself, your debts are lower than anybody who now graduates after you, you’re at an advantage. You also left a year before the economy went tits up while I’ve been getting freelance work during this down turn. All the reasons you gave I over came easily.
I worked two jobs (and a third one in the summer) and still managed to save my loan money to pay for my MA. You’ve done something wrong somewhere and while others will have more sympathy for you because they only know you by what you’ve written here and on the photographypages, I saw you about in Uni and the amount of effort you put into the degree course. You didn’t get a Third simply for the reasons you cited, no way.
Competitiveness, communication and marketing? You’re partially right but did you expect everything to be spoon fed to you? Swansea Met do after a while leave you alone to develop your practice. You have 3 years to do what you want to do, that’s the reason for the loan, not to pay bills but to grant you some freedom before jumping into the real world. I never used my loan to pay the bills, I bought gear, sold the gear, went travelling also invested it and like I keep banging on, paid for the MA I’m doing now. Swansea Met didn’t tell me how to spend my money, it just made sense because where else would I ever get £1800 in one go 3 times a year again? I said dammit I’m saving this!
But I do agree with you, about there being an emphasis on photography at Swansea instead of Journalism. The fault there is the course doesn’t have enough working PJ lecturers, Paul D is really the only one who can help. There is a skew towards the Fine Arts photography programme so that probably explains that bit. But that is another discussion entirely and besides the original point I was wanting to reply to.
Some of the photographers I most admire are Cartier-Bresson, Baltermants, Capa, Salgado, Burrows, McCullin, Koudelka and Doisneau. None of them did a degree in photography.
27K? Not worth it in my book! You guys are doing fine without it – and that’s my benchmark.
When I decided to apply for my MA over at the LCC, I put a massive amount of though about the degree, what i’d get out of it and what my end goal was. One classic comment was “use the course fee, buy a canon 5d and go somewhere and take images”.
This pissed me off like you wouldn’t imagine. It summed up everything that was wrong with the current scenario regarding documentary photography. That single comment gave me the warm and fuzzy feeling I need to know that the MA would be a great choice for me.
In my final year now, I’ve changed so much as a photographer. Working with Paul and John has really made me change the way I shot. Having your work critically looked at by John is an experience, let me tell you. He has the background and experience to back it up and it’s made me a better photographer, and head in the right direction.
Degrees aren’t for everyone. By all means, buy that camera and spend the money going somewhere glamourous (i’ve heard they are doing tours in Haiti :p ). For me it’s about the structure and really thinking before you press that shutter. The advice and mentoring from the chaps at LCC is invaluable for me.
I’m in my second year at Newport and am now sitting having a bite to eat in a cafe in Angel. I’m sitting here having come from the offices at the New Statesman where we spent the afternoon learning photo about photoediting and the Ian Parry award. This morning we where with photographer Adam Hinton learning about funding personal projects. Over the last year, and remember I am only a second year I have met some many professional photographers and traveled to New York and Amsterdam to meet with people at the top of there game. Yesterday we where at Magnum and tomorrow we have visits with photoworks, Martin Parr (who also guest lectures) and Jocelyn Bain Hogg. The guest lectures are fantastic, we get a press pass and only last week one of our student comrades won the War on Want competition and is to be exhibited at Host. I understand that university’s can be difficult places, but I believe ‘pissing it away’ which many people do is a massive waste of talent. Standards is really what it’s all about, our subject deserve the best and that’s what this course delivers. I mean there’s even a Newport graduate working at Duckrabbit, so I mean it can’t be that bad.
Thanks for that Robert. I don’t think anyone said Newport was bad. Though there seems to be a question about which century its preparing you for!
If there is a Newport grad working at duckrabbit they are yet to declare themselves.
Good to know though that people are passing themselves off as having worked for us!
The person in Question is Oliver Edwards one of your trainee’s
Oliver? Top bloke, good photographer, big soft spot for him at duckrabbit, but he doesn’t work for us.
He reckoned off his course he knew of three people working professionally in photography. Mind you in the current climate that’s not bad.
Once again this isn’t a dig at Newport, or degrees. Opinion here at duckrabbit is split. Personally I think undergraduate degrees across the board are poor value for money, but if you’re going to do one why not something decent like photography … I wish I had.
I think anyone studying today should do an elective on some model that teaches basic business. I can’t tell you how many muppets I meet who think that being creative is enough to pay the bills.
I agree Daniel, Swansea Met had a module, but the trouble is students will find it one of the most annoying modules because it gets in the way of them being creative. “But I just want to make photographs”, is usually the reaction and then come final year exhibition they don’t know how to promote themselves to an audience or work co-operatively with third parties after graduating.
I know some in my year will be in for shock because their drama queen behaviour won’t be tolerated. I’m sure the actions of students is typical across the country. So a further emphasis needs to placed on the importance of good business skills.
And don’t you think that should include having to set up and manage a website?
Duck, does it have to be a part of a photography degree?
Do you think how you print a photograph should be a part of a photography degree?
Yes, but web design is a new element for a photographer. Printing is an intrinsic element of photography. What is wrong with taking a side course in web design? How far does a University have to go and aren’t they (the Uni) in the process of watering down their course?
But Johnathan tell me what is the point in printing a photograph?
It’s a serious question. Why do we print photographs?
Duck, that’s given. In this day and age, you should at least know basic HTML and how to do web-related activities. Those who don’t are doomed.
@Duckrabbit.
I took it seriously, but missed the point of it. I can agree with you if I really wanted to but then there would be no discussion. 🙂 I could agree because I consider my printed portfolio a waste of money compared to my digital one.
In keeping this short (trying to read Foucault’s Order of Things.) I think it is important to print, just as others 100 years ago were decrying the Box Brownie because it robbed those using the camera, the ability to understand that photographs are a manipulation of one’s reality. Most visually uneducated people see photos as facts when they’re not. So in both a practical sense there is a need, but just fundamentally it’s important especially for photography students.
Absolutely its important to print! For all the reasons you state. But the main reason I guess for most people is so that people can see their work. And of course the web is brilliant for that. So in 2010 if Newport doesn’t teach you how to pull a portfolio together on the web, well as intimated before, they are in part teaching for the wrong century.
Most people will want to see a digital portfolio before they let you through the door and you plonk the real good stuff down in front of them. Its common sense.
I don’t think there can be many colleges/unis who aren’t concerned about the push to increase student numbers at any price. From Universities in Crisis:
“staff at LondonMet also made their views known with regard to the erosion in the standard of the learning and teaching that was taking place as a consequence of this patently unsustainable rate of expansion.”
The Sub Prime University: http://isacna.wordpress.com/2010/02/02/the-sub-prime-university/
At the Redeye Conference last summer, John Kippin (leader of the Photography MA at Sunderland Uni) described the approach of many institutions as, and I quote: “like a carpet warehouse”.
If we expect more than just a piece of paper, if we want all the goodies Ciara, Daniel and Robert talk about above, relevant industry contacts, guest lectures from leading professionals, workplace skills, then it seems likely that we’ll have to look hard for them. There are undoubtedly some very good people working under no doubt difficult conditions with a dearth of resources, but who are these good people, and how do we find them? Do we need a um, database?
Apparently we students are an uppity lot, now that we’re paying our own way. We complain if staff don’t turn up, if the equipment isn’t there. If these were consumer goods we were buying, we’d ask for our money back. It’s about time employees on these failing courses woke up to this, stopped penalising the more vocal students with reduced marks, stopped removing resources from them. And we as students really need to complain more, and through the college’s official complaints procedures, and keep doing it until something changes.
Unfortunately it’s far more likely that we don’t want to rock these boats, that many of us simply cannot afford to do so.
Daniel, duckrabbit I agree with you both about the web stuff, but where are people supposed to learn this stuff if not in an educational context, especially when they are working 2 part-time jobs to pay their fees? How hard can it be to add in a one-day course in say blogging using the WP CMS? Easy, but they’d have to pay someone to come in and do it, so they simply don’t.
Can I just add, in case there is any possibility of misunderstanding: please DO NOT go to my alma mater to learn to be a photographer. Feel free to mail or Tweet me if you want to know which one it is. Thanks.
Since last year evey Newport Docphot student has a blog by order of Anastasia Taylor Lynn (VII) she made it one of our assignments, we’ve had then up and running for over a year now.
Anastasia Taylor Lind
@Daniel – I agree part of the course should be kept up to date with things like web design or a side part. I suppose the question would be what do you think should be included in a modern PJ degree course if having the option to do plan it?
@JonathanJK – I didn’t expect anything to be spoon fed to me as you put it, but a more emphasis on those things that are important. I agree though the teachers should leave you alone for your own analysis and taking – but when in class it should be relevant. Previous to University I had learnt darkroom technique and didnt need to again in 1st year, yet it was part of the course. Its neccasary in a diploma I believe but not a degree surely?
I’m not saying I havn’t got freelance work since coming out..I’ve done a lot like yourself with equipment purchased with the loan – yet approaching companies they ask for online portfolio’s, not silverprint folders and prints that take time & cost money! That, I suppose angered me when I came out.
But coming up with the amount of effort I put in and receiving a third- there are other factors I won’t discuss here and are personal within the last year. I’m not sure which side of photojournalism you specifically want to travel down..which is another question. Which type of photojournalist does it cater for? Media, Pap, NGO, conflict? online journalist..all of them?
I don’t think you can take your own model for money saving and apply it to other people though! We all got the same loan agreed, and each had jobs…but projects, exhibitions, travel and extra costs can fluctuate. Thats my argument. I loved the course but I wished it had focused on the current market. Paul D was superb and a great mentor. How does Newport defferienciate from ours though..what do they teach that we didnt have, or what do we have that they don’t teach?
Out of my class not many are still doing photojournalism.
I suppose what would everyone have on a degree course that they would choose. Looking at the current climate I’d start with multimedia.
Newport is crap! every one there wants to be martin parr. documentary photography has nothing new to say, just always maintains ‘middle class’ predjudices. yes, anyone can go backpacking to india 4 a week. is that long enough to overcome jet lag or the shits! for groundbreaking Blackpool & Fylde, or Bournemouth. everytime.
Most certainly agree that photography courses should be more up to date, on a technical, business and practical level. A lot of courses (including mine at Trent) are overly theorectical so there are a lot of poorly constructed pictures with meaning of a devine intellect. After 3 years of listening to excess wind (where elsewhere I learned more on a week intensive lighting course) I became rather exhausted of all that postmodern verbiage that always has to come with images resembling last night’s reheated pizza with huge dollops of mayo.
I live in near Newport and having always been told that Newport is The Mysterious Cities of Gold, I was surprised just how remarkably awful the photography was there. Beth is right; it’s full of Martin Parr and Salgado wannabies, too much talk about the idea, and maintains elitist attitudes. The work was too gallery inspired, and let’s fact it, the gallery is a place where friends turn up for Tesco Value wine and pretzels saying the pictures look great.Of course they will say that, who would after all tell their girlfriend that she’s gained weight?
My advice to any one applying to art school is to research the course first. Most are over subscribed, with tutors either engaged too much in their own practice, or otherwise dont want o be there. There were a few great tutors, but only a handful. For me I was quite independent and netowrked with different depts, even different schools. In the end, it’s up to you to get off your butt, and demand what you’re paying for.
This website has just duplicated the wrong name!
Anyways, I most certainly agree that photography courses should be more up to date, on a technical, business and practical level. A lot of courses (including mine at Trent) are overly theorectical so there are a lot of poorly constructed pictures with meaning of a devine intellect. After 3 years of listening to excess wind (where elsewhere I learned more on a week intensive lighting course) I became rather exhausted of all that postmodern verbiage that always has to come with images resembling last night’s reheated pizza with huge dollops of mayo.
I live in near Newport and having always been told that Newport is The Mysterious Cities of Gold, I was surprised just how remarkably awful the photography was there. Beth is right; it’s full of Martin Parr and Salgado wannabies, too much talk about the idea, and maintains elitist attitudes. The work was too gallery inspired, and let’s fact it, the gallery is a place where friends turn up for Tesco Value wine and pretzels saying the pictures look great.Of course they will say that, who would after all tell their girlfriend that she’s gained weight?
My advice to any one applying to art school is to research the course first. Most are over subscribed, with tutors either engaged too much in their own practice, or otherwise don’t want to be there. There were a few great tutors, but only a handful. For me I was quite independent and networked with different depts, even different schools. In the end, it’s up to you to get off your butt, and demand what you’re paying for.
‘This website has just duplicated the wrong name! ‘
Bit lost by this? What do you mean Dion?
i am using beth’s laptop but it has saved her email instead of mine so there’s my comment under her name!!
A lot of great photography and photographers have come out of Newport. There can be no doubt about that.
As I said before you can question the value of a lot of degrees but if you are going to spend your cash do it on something creative.
Is a doco photography degree worth having? – http://www.duckrabbit.info/2010/02/is-a-photojournalism-degree-worth-having/ Care 2 coment?
Hello,
I can say that the course is indeed one of the best in the country for the journalistic/artist practice, however for more fashion etc maybe not, yet its down to you, the lecturers will always support you. Indeed the course does focus a lot on the ‘idea’ and can be a bit elitist however they do this to make you think in more complex ways to make you not pump out generic shit. The course has changed A LOT since these comments were made, the martin parr phase has passed.
– a docphoter